Copyrights

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Copyrights

Post by Tākoizu-Chan on Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:49 pm

Hi! Takoizu-chan here!

As a filmmaker, a band member, and my father a lawyer, I know a bit about copyright. I really think we need to talk about what we should do with VizKids. I'll tell you right now, VizKids won't be happy with us. They will see us as a threat to their business. If we call or e-mail them, I think we can convince them that we are not doing this for money, and we are not trying to take away the manga's business. It would probably not take much time at all, and maybe we would need to send them a small royalty. I don't think the royalty will be big because we aren't getting money, we refuse donations, this is not going to be aired on tv, and because VizKids will see us as kids doing something fun in our spare time. If the royalty is outrageously big, I would be willing to put in a little bit of money to help. I don't think putting up a disclaimer at the beginning of every episode will help, as VizKids might think we're lying about getting rights. Believe me, getting rights are not as scary as it seems. It just takes one phone call or e-mail! I'm not going to lie; VizKids will sue us, bug us, tell Youtube about us so we can't repost anything, shut down the forum, and make sure we don't get another forum. Yes, I've seen this happen.
For those who don't know a lot about copyright, I'd go to Youtube and watch "A Fair(y) Use Tale". It's a great video! Thank you for reading this post. If you have any questions, please let me know.

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Re: Copyrights

Post by Memieko on Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:15 pm

We already discussed copyright and have brought it up a LOT I joined as soon as they were finishing the discussions (I can't for the life of me remember what they concluded to but I know no one wanted to talk about it again so I don't think this was the right time to bring up another topic about it...)

Anyway my opinions:

I don't really think VizKids has any way of suing us(Being that it's online and no one knows anyone else's personal information...) and if you ever watched Yugioh Abridged (which is a parody of the original Yugioh) made by LittleKuriboh, he hasn't been sued at all. The worst they did was delete his account on Youtube, they never touched his site and he even uses the parody for money by selling merchandise with catch phrases the characters use. (i.e T-shirts that say "Broolyn Rage", "In America", "Screw the rules I have money")

As far as I know we will not be posting official videos onto youtube, they will be hosted on another site (according to everyone else)

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Re: Copyrights

Post by Tākoizu-Chan on Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:22 pm

I don't know if VizKids WILL sue us, but they do have the power to do that. Another thing is that you are talking about a parody, which VizKids can't really do anything about. They were probably insulted more than anything else. Parody is under fair use, however this is not a parody, and instead it is a fan anime using lines from the English-translated manga. We are much more of a target to VizKids than the Yugioh parody. I talked to my dad about this project, and he agreed we need to confront this issue.

Edit: Oops! I ment 4Kids!


Last edited by Tākoizu-Chan on Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Copyrights

Post by Memieko on Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:32 pm

I'm talking about 4kids for the Yugioh parody, vizkids doesn't really have any ownership unless they print the Manga for it. The only things we're copyrighting are the artstyle, lines, characters and pokemon. We are making everything from scratch and trying to make as little usage of any copyright at all. Yugioh got attacked because he took all the scenes from the anime and copied over the voice acting with his own lines as if making Yugioh his own work. We aren't doing that and I don't think that this is as severe as a copyright as Yugioh Abridged is. Point being: if he didn't get sued I highly doubt we will, but different companies different cases.

Edit: We already came to a conclusion which I have no idea what that is...So I'm not going to post anymore until one of the staff that knows more about it posts. I was just trying to get my opinion across o.x

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Re: Copyrights

Post by Minto-chan on Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:59 pm

This is a serious issue, and I don't think this should be ignored!
Oh, I didn't know there was another topic about it...is it still open? Perhaps we should bring this disscusion to that topic. But for now, I'll post my opinions here.
Yes, VizKids CAN sue us. My dad is a lawyer too! (Uh, we have the same dad, Takoizu-chan... XD )
If they sue us, it will end up costing more money for us to pay them then it would if we just sent a dollar in the mail to ask for rights. All it is is a simple phone call or an e-mail.
Again, this is a serious issue, and it should not be ignored!

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Re: Copyrights

Post by whatthechuck3 on Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:01 pm

I have to say, I've been consistantly worried about this. I know we've discussed a number of times, but I've never been too happy with some of the decisions we've made copyright wise...Perhaps we should reopen this subject again? I know we've done this a few times, but maybe Tako knows what she's talking about...Sorry, but it does worry me something fierce...

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Re: Copyrights

Post by Tākoizu-Chan on Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:07 pm

As an example, has anyone seen the "Touhou Anime Project"? The fan anime was cancelled due to low ratings, but the creator, ZUN, approved of the show and told the anime creator it was alright for him to make the show. I don't see any difference from turning a game into a fan anime to turning a manga into a fan anime. If we get the rights, I'm sure Hidanori and MATO will be delighted to know we love the manga and really want it to be an anime. I think VizKids will see us as a way to advertise for the manga, but I don't think they will be happy until we get the rights.

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Re: Copyrights

Post by Memieko on Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:10 pm

Minto-chan wrote:
Again, this is a serious issue, and it should not be ignored!

We aren't ignoring it, hence the line "There have been several discussions about it"

Honestly, I think we should email them at least as well. If anything they might even help us. *shot for wishful thinking*

Also, I'm sure they have the capabilities to sue, I never said they didn't, I said I doubt they will because I don't find it as anything really worth suing (College students making a fanime from a manga?) The most they'd do is take down the videos or site.

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Re: Copyrights

Post by Minto-chan on Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:21 pm

I'm not saying this has been ignored before, I'm just saying it was ignored recently until Takoizu-chan brought this issue up.
I think they will help us if we ask for their help.
I think the most they would do is take everything down (then we'd lose all of our work!) and then they may sue us. Sure, this may seem like just a bunch of teens and college students making a fanime, but that doesn't mean they couldn't sue us! Are all of the people making this really willing to take a chance and risk this whole site, all of their work, and possibly worse?

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Re: Copyrights

Post by Memieko on Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:29 pm

First off... this sounds like some persuasive topic like it's a political debate(Seriously hate politics xD) Second, we have all our work saved onto our computers we just upload it here to get it to other people. I would die before I rely on the internet to hold all my files... lol and Lastly, if 4kids didn't sue LittleKuriboh for Yugioh Abridged (And he's still making more episodes!) I HIGHLY doubt with every inkling in my mind that VizKids will sue us for what we're doing.


Last edited by Memieko on Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:33 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Copyrights

Post by Tākoizu-Chan on Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:30 pm

To whatthechuck: Thank you for your comment! I'm glad someone is as worried about this as I am! I've been in film crews in a position where we need the music rights and everyone says it's a waste of time, so I feel all fuzzy inside! Smile

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Re: Copyrights

Post by Minto-chan on Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:39 pm

To whatthechuck3: I agree! I really want some more people to comment on this so that we can make a wise decision before we jump to conclusions.
To Memieko: I'm not trying to make this into a political debate, but the law is the law, and we would be foolish not to think about this.
I know you all probably have your work saved on your computers. The point is not that we would literally lose our work, it's that we would never be able to use it for anything.
4kids is not VizKids, and like Takoizu-chan said, this isn't a parody, and we are directly taking lines, Pokemon names, and Pokemon characters from the Pokemon Adventures manga.

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Re: Copyrights

Post by Memieko on Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:47 pm

Minto-chan wrote:
To Memieko: I'm not trying to make this into a political debate, but the law is the law, and we would be foolish not to think about this.
I know you all probably have your work saved on your computers. The point is not that we would literally lose our work, it's that we would never be able to use it for anything.
4kids is not VizKids, and like Takoizu-chan said, this isn't a parody, and we are directly taking lines, Pokemon names, and Pokemon characters from the Pokemon Adventures manga.

If you read my first post I said something like "But who knows since 4kids isn't viskids" I just see 4kids doing more copyright stuff than Vizkids has ever done. Also we aren't "Directly" taking the lines, the script team abridges them or changes wording. I am already in agreement that we should email them O.o I'm just saying the possibility of a sue is low. (The parody steals all the art from the anime it self and is profiting form it.. I think it's a bigger offense than a non-profit fanime)

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Re: Copyrights

Post by Minto-chan on Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:16 pm

Even if the script team abridges the lines, we are still taking characters and Pokemon names.
I think the possibility of VizKids suing us may be low, but we still need to prepare ourselves if something like that happens. Otherwise, we may be fined large sums of money. I would hate for anything like that to happen to any of the people working on this!
Even if 4kids works more with copyright issues, VizKids doesn't only publish the Pokemon Adventures Series. They are most likely not new at this, and just because they don't publish many manga doesn't mean they won't be just as harsh (or possibly even harsher) as 4kids would be.

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Re: Copyrights

Post by Memieko on Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:24 pm

Minto-chan wrote:Even if the script team abridges the lines, we are still taking characters and Pokemon names.
I think the possibility of VizKids suing us may be low, but we still need to prepare ourselves if something like that happens. Otherwise, we may be fined large sums of money. I would hate for anything like that to happen to any of the people working on this!
Even if 4kids works more with copyright issues, VizKids doesn't only publish the Pokemon Adventures Series. They are most likely not new at this, and just because they don't publish many manga doesn't mean they won't be just as harsh (or possibly even harsher) as 4kids would be.

I never said that was the reason I thought they would never sue us(So don't assume that was my excuse please..). 4Kids deals with more legal issues than VizKids probably ever will. I'm not going against you guys! >< I'm for it I'm just saying my opinion on the suing! That's all. It just sounds like you're trying to get me to be for the Copyright thing when I already am for it. Whether or not VizKids will sue (I honestly don't care about that since it's the internet) I still agree that we should email if not asking permission, then at least mentioning this to them. It's not even an anime it's a fan anime.

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Re: Copyrights

Post by Tākoizu-Chan on Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:31 pm

Wow! Thank you to everyone for the posts! I didn't think this post would get far... Smile
First off, I don't think VizKids would sue us 100%. But I know it is lawful and polite to ask for the rights.
I don't want this post just to be about the VizKids problem, but if we get that issue solved, then we could move onto the fun stuff of getting our own music copyrighted! I don't want this post to be a flame-war, but a place to talk more about the law and business side of this project. I don't want to put down dreams of our project getting sued or cancelled, and I'm sorry if I sounded like that.
I do think we could be a big hit on the internet, and I'm having dreams about otaku forums and newsletters talking about us!

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Re: Copyrights

Post by Memieko on Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:42 pm

We only work on this Fanime when we have time, we have school and studies to do, heck some of us are even going to school to be Doctors or Vets nothing that has anything to do with VA, Scripts, or animating. All of our music is originally made there is no real copyright unless you mean publishing it...


Edit:I seriously mis read your post, anyway I think now I'm just gonna wait for a staff member to give their opinions, since I think I've posted enough and had my say lol

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Re: Copyrights

Post by Tākoizu-Chan on Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:59 pm

To Memieko: I understand what you're saying! I think we have a right to copyright the music, as we have worked hard in our spare time to create this. I'm sorry if I confused you when I said business. I meant the copyright and preventing others from taking our work (I hate it when people take a project and say it's their own). I should have rephrased that. Everyone here is so nice and I'd hate to see this project crash. Thank you for agreeing with me on sending a letter to VizKids. I'll wait to see what others have to say about this issue, then we can get on with the fun part!

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Re: Copyrights

Post by Minto-chan on Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:10 pm

Yeah! I think we have done so much now, and I would hate to see this crash! So many people have worked so hard on this!
I really do care if we get sued. We could take care of this -easy as pie!-as a team. But I really want to work on this as a team, and not just me ranting on and no one trying to work together.
So let's work our hardest at fixing this tough problem as a team! :>w<:

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Re: Copyrights

Post by Memieko on Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:36 pm

I don't really think it's a problem... I mean I understand treating this seriously and all, but I think(partly my fault) it's just getting treated like it's the end of the world or it's already a problem. We're kinda making it into a problem if we keep posting like this...*is afraid of what an admin will say when they come* I think we should look at it more as to avoid a future problem...(honestly how do you sue people that live all around the world without tracking them down?) I can understand if we were to make it public in real life, but (taking this from RedHerring) it's the internet! There's millions of other things that are pirated and downloaded. I would find it really sad if VizKids tracked us all down just to sue us... -.-"

Anyhow, okay seriously, I'm done because I feel like I'm stepping out of my lines by posting here x: Sorry, guys!

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Re: Copyrights

Post by SaiTurtlesninjaNX on Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:43 pm

I someone lock this theard please?

To all newbes. We already talk about copyright. Please look before you post. Thank you.

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Re: Copyrights

Post by whatthechuck3 on Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:07 pm

Yes I'll lock it. I didn't mean to cause an argument. As to the discussion on copyrights, we have already decided. I shouldn't have said anything...I should be more impartial, lol. However, I may talk to aki or ezu on the subject again if there does need to be more discussion. For now, the topic is locked.

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Re: Copyrights

Post by dirksies on Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:25 pm

We've definitely had this discussion numerous times before. Here's the original thread.

Not to worry, Tako, we haven't over-looked this issue. My father is a lawyer as well and I talked to him about this issue last year when I first joined the forum. I told him the basics of our project and he said we could, and mostly likely would get sued for doing what we're doing. The thing is, what we're doing does not fall under Fair Use, so we are not protected under that law. Not to mention that it's on the Internet, so we have to deal with other countries' laws as well. My dad said that other projects and individals have gotten sued for trying to do similar projects to this--and most of being minors would not protect us. He actually forbade me from being associated with this project, but I didn't listen to him.

The course we decided to act on--keeping our heads down, was mostly a hopeful thought that we could get far before we get discovered by Viz, and, maybe when we got discovered, we would have enough support from fans to stay afloat. I want this project to suceed just as much as everyone else, but we really do not have claims to anything we do really. I'll relock this thread, but if you want to talk to me more, you can PM me, or get ahold of me on Skype.

edit: I realize my post seems a little gruff, but we have discussed this already, but then again, we might need to have a staff meeting about this...

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Re: Copyrights

Post by Supernova on Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:21 am

I just wanted to add a point to this - I think the issue was undercomplicated in this thread. Vizkids own the rights to distribute the manga in north America and whatever, right? It's published by different companies in Japan and Singapore. The idea of Vizkids suing us for use of characters etc. seems ridiculous to me ... pokemon etc. are the property fo the whole franchise etc., and the characters are the intellectual property of the authors and so on. Plus we're an international group ... the manga is published by different companies in different staff members' areas. I'm not saying we can;t get sued - I believe all your lawyerparents, but I think the issue has been grossly undercomplicated in this thread.

But yeah, heads down, fingers crossed, with a disclaimer for good will Wink

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Re: Copyrights

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:33 am

OMG YOU NEWBIES CAN YOU STOP MAKING THREADS ABOUT COPYRIGHTS? (well when dirks was a newbie she did too. >_>)

It's not entirely decided yet, but episode 1 is a looong way to go. :/ Let's focus on the work first. And we had a discussion about this.

From now on, I announce, mods and admins please lock topics like this. I'm not angry, but.. need to put this on FAQ. >_>
..and I shouldn't post on a locked topic.

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Re: Copyrights

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