Trying to make the project work faster

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Trying to make the project work faster

Post by Red_the_knight on Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:17 am

Okay, I just thought of an idea since I was once new. The project is not coming along since we illustrators had to color, and that's no fun. I still want to help. So, I came up with something for both Animators and Illustrators to cooperate to make the project fast and done. These are my suggestions:

#1: Line Art slowing down:
Animators, have a problem with line art? No problem. Let us help. We're very good with line art, and I know you guys are taking care of it, but staying stuck in ones egg won't let you out. You need a buddy. Plus, 5-10 ten heads are way better than 3 heads.

#2: If the first part is done, then let's do the second part:
If you Animators were able to get some of the lineart done, then let us get started on coloring. It's easier to do a small portion of each part, but not the whole thing. That way when the first part is partly done, then we can start coloring. Don't make me wait in line while the roller coaster ride is still going.
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Re: Trying to make the project work faster

Post by Jonk on Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:59 pm

There are a few parts from the intro that could be colored. The idea of others doing the line art is kinda pointless for me... I don't even use a tablet so my first go is pure digital. More heads might work for Guest or Aki but I guess that's up to them.
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Re: Trying to make the project work faster

Post by Red_the_knight on Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:00 pm

Thank you! Thank you! See? This is the reason why it's boring here! Having the animators doing line art, what's the point of that? Sure with digital editing, but the process won't work. Plus, there's no telling where Aki and Guest are since they're aren't around.

We need the Illustration Team to help out too, not sit our butts waiting for something to happen. Come on, people! Pick one!
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Re: Trying to make the project work faster

Post by Guest on Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:06 pm

Let me explain why we don't do lining anymore...
The animators used to draw a rough draft of each frame which was of unacceptable quality for the final cut. Because of this, the illustration team was tasked with fixing and lining each frame. But for some reason, probably because of the lack of fixed reference material, the illustration team seemed to just line the rough sketches and not really fixing anything. To make it easier for the illustration team the animators began to draw each frame at final quality which rendered the illustration team's lining work redundant.

The main reason why this project isn't moving along is simply because everybody is too busy to work on it. Hopefully it doesn't end up like this guy predicted.

I've outlined the episodes of the series and put the file in the Dropbox. So if the writers want to get started on that it would help a lot.

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Re: Trying to make the project work faster

Post by Red_the_knight on Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:19 am

Maxim. Okay, so you do have a point about the redundant. I can take it, but at least let us get started on the coloring. I'm falling asleep here. If you think that's still a problem, I still have pt. 3 saved on my computer.

And the second, it's summer. I thought for sure when summer comes everyone won't be busy, but instead everyone is busy with other things. This feels like a wasteland with no people what so ever.

Sorry for complaining, but I can't just stand and sit on the computer all day waiting for something to happen. Besides, the ones that were complete last time were fine enough to begin coloring, but starting all over won't solve anything. It's going to make the project slow.
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Re: Trying to make the project work faster

Post by Jonk on Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:25 am

FYI were not starting over just rescripting some parts. If you want to colour then I'm sure there's no problem in that. Do you not have access to the dropbox?
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Re: Trying to make the project work faster

Post by Red_the_knight on Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:25 pm

I do have access to the dropbox.
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Re: Trying to make the project work faster

Post by Memieko on Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:49 am

Guest wrote:Let me explain why we don't do lining anymore...
The animators used to draw a rough draft of each frame which was of unacceptable quality for the final cut. Because of this, the illustration team was tasked with fixing and lining each frame. But for some reason, probably because of the lack of fixed reference material, the illustration team seemed to just line the rough sketches and not really fixing anything. To make it easier for the illustration team the animators began to draw each frame at final quality which rendered the illustration team's lining work redundant.

The main reason why this project isn't moving along is simply because everybody is too busy to work on it. Hopefully it doesn't end up like this guy predicted.

I've outlined the episodes of the series and put the file in the Dropbox. So if the writers want to get started on that it would help a lot.

Okay so I do agree with Red to go back to line art, but not so much the reasons for it because I do understand why the illustration team did stop. I have my own reasons and these are why:

The animation sketches have been coming out slow enough already without having to take another few hows to correct the kinks themselves. The coloring team is pretty fast and I'm fast at line art rather than color.

Yes, Guest a lot of people that line art don't know how to take control of the drawing and fix it up to make it more like the artwork in the manga or to close their lines. But in my own defense, none of my line arts are like that, I keep in the specification and I pressurize whats needed after watching how Joy corrected some of my line art. I don't follow the sketch I line art to improve it and make it look closer to the manga.

I would like to make an offer if you will. I wouldn't mind monitoring the work of others to make sure their lines are smooth and not so blindly following the sketch beneath when it comes to line art. I think animation takes long enough already with how busy everyone is. Even the illustration team leaders have been busy to use time to fix that line art, but having the animation team do their own line art is smart if they have the time. But not all of them do, but I have time while I sit here to go over the work of everyone to double check it as they do to make sure they're not blindly following it. And if they do I have no problem telling them to stop for future use.

The problem is no one ever says anything to the people that do that. They just shrug it off, fix it then blame the whole illustration team for it then cut off line art work. That's basically all I see and I feel blamed for the things I have been making sure not to do. I work hard to make the lines perfect and not rely on the sketches to do my work but instead of that everyone just talks about the downside to what everyone else does and I get thrown into that group. Yes, I have been taking it a little personally. We need people to communicate better and to let someone know they're relying to much on the sketches not just ignore it face to face and later talk about how it sucks to someone else or refer to it as a 3rd person issue. I'm not one of those people that do that and that's why it's been getting on my nerves that we're doing this.

I think it should also be choice, such as Jonk's idea. He should be allowed to do his own line art if he wants to and other can sketch then send for the illustration team if they want to. But I can swear to you I don't blindly follow their sketches when I do my own line art so it's not -everyone- in the illustration team messing up the work. I believe we need a person to actually look at everyone's line art and make sure they did it right if this is such an issue. If anything I have time to do it as well, otherwise if we keep it like this. We're never going to get anything done at all.


EDIT: Also a suggestion, when people try to audition for Line art in the future we should be a little bit more strict on how they fix up the original sketch in the future. Or add in a different sketch thats a little bit more sloppier to really see if they know how to not do that.

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Re: Trying to make the project work faster

Post by Guest on Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:59 am

I resigned the team a couple of weeks ago because my computer broke so I can't do animation anymore so it wouldn't be fair for me to make decisions. So whatever you guys decide to do is your business. But I think this issue is the least of this project's problems.

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Re: Trying to make the project work faster

Post by Memieko on Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:00 am

Eh I brushed the problems I see slightly with the communication thing. There's many more, but pretty much since I can't do much more than this whatever happens happens.

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Re: Trying to make the project work faster

Post by Jonk on Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:17 pm

@Memieko: I don't think anyone is saying that the illustration team cant do a good job with the lineart. The reason it was switched over to the animation team was pure redundancy issues. Also if you can, take any scene and line it, after its done let me know and I'll put it into motion and we'll see how it looks, Ok.

@Guest: You Resigned ?_?

@All: I think if this project is ever planning to move faster we need more regular updates. If we had a Bi-weekly/Monthly update from each team (regardless if no progress) we could keep the flow of the project on track. I find that without seeing progress I just go slower and slower.

@Leads/Mods: How about we open a position on staff for recruiters? We are seriously under staffed for the type of animation we are looking for. Expesially in the Animators department... so lonely DX
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Re: Trying to make the project work faster

Post by Red_the_knight on Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:47 pm

@Jonk: One problem: it's a ghost town! There are not much people around since summer is around. It's like everyone is having so much without giving a hand to the project. It's not like the Bi-weekly/Monthly will help with no one around except the ones who are present. Sorry for the overboard though, I don't blame you and Guest and Aki.

@Guest: I know how that feels. I hate my computer too. Too much lagging. I wouldn't say "this project is a complete bust" since there are too many computer errors.

@Everyone: I can understand the line art is redundant and we can't refix it, but seeing the project is slow there is not much help around. Do I have to repeat this: Let Us Help! And another reason, all of you are missing one key here that is making the project slow.
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Re: Trying to make the project work faster

Post by PokeFan72 on Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:50 pm

@Red: Well I'm still around, and I've got nothing to do where I live. But this place just confuses me.

Suggestion: wouldn't it be better to arrange a skype meeting or something to discuss this???

And what do you mean "lineart is redundant"??? I want to help you guys, but I'm only 11, so some of this stuff is a bit hard for me to understand...
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Re: Trying to make the project work faster

Post by Jonk on Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:54 pm

"Redundant" for this case imply that it gets done twice (which is pointless).

Also I believe in the past they had Skype meetings although I've never been in on one.
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Re: Trying to make the project work faster

Post by Red_the_knight on Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:14 pm

Yes, but the Skype meeting is like an interview and how it works for the project. They even discussed about new ideas for skype. And you, Jonk, have not been in Skype? We got some serious discussing to do.

And I will agree to Pokefan's idea of having a skype meeting. I'm dead serious that if everyone including the ones who haven't been around aren't going to help out, then this project is lost and become a stupid terrible idea for a fanmade project. No offense really.
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Re: Trying to make the project work faster

Post by Guest on Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:23 pm

In order for a line artist to be justified in the grand scheme of this project the animator must draw the frame extremely sketchy which would require the line artist to be very skilled to the point that he/she has to be an animator himself. Which would mean the line artist would be of more use as an animator.
But the way frames are drawn now, it would take no more than a couple of more minutes to have the final line art. And some software such as Flash CS and ToonBoom Animate have auto-lining options which are much quicker.
So unless we get an animator that draws with jittery lines or traditionally with pencil and paper, there's really no need for line artists.

It's not that they're completely useless, but I'm trying to keep dependencies on other people to a minimum. Because the more people we need ...well... The more people we'll need to recruit. And we all know how hard that is...

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Re: Trying to make the project work faster

Post by Memieko on Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:57 pm

I'm wondering then. I mean what prevented me from auditioning for animation team was the fact I can't copy the same exact art style in the manga without trying pretty hard to step away from my own art style. But either way I've animated a ton before, but should I if it'll help any?

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Re: Trying to make the project work faster

Post by Jonk on Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:56 am

Well like I said in my previous post if you want to line scenes then go for it and if you don't have software to put it together ill simply do it for you when your done. Truthfully at this point your correct that you should be an animator now seeing as we integrated the role of line artist into our branch.

@All: Well I'm really going to push a bi-weekly/monthly update even if its just me doing it. I'll be making a topic in the staff forum soon with things that are done from the animation teams perspective and putting it up for grabs to the illustration team for color and BG.
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Re: Trying to make the project work faster

Post by Guest on Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:02 am

Yeah, Memieko, go for it. We all have problems animating in Mato's style but we hope it would be easier once the reference sheets are done... Which somebody should draw... Any takers?^^;

The check-ins seem like a good idea especially if something happens to a staff member. If we don't check in on them we could be waiting for their work forever.

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Re: Trying to make the project work faster

Post by Red_the_knight on Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:09 am

Check ins? Sounds fine. But you want to do this instead: Clock-in and Clock-out. That way members who are staff will clock-in and out anytime their on the job.

I can't do much animation as Memieko, Jonk, and Guest can. But if this is a quicker way to get the project, then make it happen. I'm already waiting.
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Re: Trying to make the project work faster

Post by PokeFan72 on Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:42 am

I'm still practicing coloring you know, but my mom and brother are serious computer hogs. =.=
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Re: Trying to make the project work faster

Post by Memieko on Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:26 pm

Red_the_knight wrote:Check ins? Sounds fine. But you want to do this instead: Clock-in and Clock-out. That way members who are staff will clock-in and out anytime their on the job.

.

This isn't really a job Red, it's all volunteer and of everyone's time. Clocking in and out would get more tedious than produce any results.

Also @Jonk and @Guest
Alright, I'll just try making up a running/walking animation for one of the characters then.

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Re: Trying to make the project work faster

Post by Red_the_knight on Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:20 am

Originally posted by Memieko
This isn't really a job Red, it's all volunteer and of everyone's time. Clocking in and out would get more tedious than produce any results.

Sheesh. I didn't say anything about a job. I only said that so that the project can be done faster.

Let me give you all a specific idea you guys won't see coming.
I looked over the dropbox and see all the ones that were sketched are still there. Plus, I even checked out the ones that had line art. How many were done? 14. And how many that weren't finised? 7. And what's left? 11. I see a total of 32 even though they have numbers.

Next I looked at the Part 1 that each had camera icons. Then at the line arts, I see 15 done. And as for coloring, I see 5 done: 8, 14, 19, 23, and 24. That makes a total of 20/32. There are two months left before summer is over, and I am not going to sit around doing nothing (even you guys say you need to be assigned or that's fine). But the good side is that since some are line art, there is a good chance to try coloring the characters.

Only 12 needed to be line art (don't care if it's redundant because some of the sketches have a gap), and when they're done we can on to coloring.

My new plan: start with Part 1 and wrap it up. And then get to Part 2, and then Part 3. Can we agree to that or is there more to discuss? I didn't come all this way to join in for nothing. I came in because I love the project Debeatmaster had. I can make this quick for the line art, and get rid of the stuff that we don't need for coloring and keep the ones that are important. Does it matter or are we going to wait our butts off for nothing?
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Re: Trying to make the project work faster

Post by Guest on Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:00 pm

All those files are over a year old. They were drawn before the restructuring, so of course they need to be fixed and lined. You can easily tell they are low quality. But Aki11 and I decided to start over but I guess we forgot to delete those files.

We can't start coloring yet because we don't have a color chart and even if we wanted to, we can't start lining because we don't have the reference material done.

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Re: Trying to make the project work faster

Post by Red_the_knight on Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:56 am

I can see why. I take one look at one of the line arts, and it seems some have missing gaps. They're just following the lines.

Look, if you want to finish up the project, I am starting with Part 1 as practice even though I'm refixing the lineart and doing some coloring practice. Why? When I was doing a bit of coloring, it seems some of the lines were off. Plus, I was able to fix it by filling in the gap to make the coloring easier.

And while I was coloring, there are spots missing:
-The back of Red's jacket of the Poke ball symbol
-The other two-five kids I'm trying to color
-the grass

So why don't we make a deal? If you agree to this, then we (and I mean us illustrators and animators) will cooperate and work together to make project fast and finished, that way the project won't be a bust. I tell you one thing: if there are empty gaps, I should be able to fill in the gaps so that way the coloring will be put in. I'll even fix up the gaps that are missing.

What do you say? Jonk? Guest? Memieko? Aki? Can we agree to that? Just don't delete the old ones. I got this. And I don't want to here: that's up to you. I can't do this alone.

And don't worry about the reference material or the coloring chart, we got this covered because it's Sai.
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