Copyright???

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Copyright???

Post by Neojunk on Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:53 am

I'm not sure if this really applies but do we have any permission to provide the PokeSpe anime version? I'm sure it's for non-profit but is there any special permission necessary for going with this project?

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Re: Copyright???

Post by Joyfulldreams on Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:55 am

There shouldn't be any issues, as we are not claiming to own the characters or plot, nor are we gaining any profit from this what so ever. There should be no issues.

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Re: Copyright???

Post by Neojunk on Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:42 pm

Oh cool Very Happy btw I didn't mean to be a buzzkill or anything -.-

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Re: Copyright???

Post by Mylodon on Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:54 pm

Actually, it might still be an issue, but it shouldn't be a big one.

If worst comes to worst, most members are under age and we will probably just be forced to shut down.

And remember, that is the worst case scenario that I can imagine.

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Re: Copyright???

Post by dirksies on Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:57 pm

No, it's good that you're thinking about it. Especially with Youtube cracking down on copyright stuff more, we need to keep that in mind.

I don't think we should run into any trouble. People from the VAA boards do stuff similar to this all the time, albiet not as involved as this. I'll check out some of the Fair Use rules though, just in case.

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Re: Copyright???

Post by Joyfulldreams on Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:02 pm

I don't think Nintendo or VIZ will mind, so long as we make clear that this is purely fan-made and for no profit at all.

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Re: Copyright???

Post by Mylodon on Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:10 pm

dirksies wrote:I'll check out some of the Fair Use rules though, just in case.
I did that for 3 straight hours.

However, there are lots of arguments that should help us argue our case.

Also, I have no means of studying it outside of Wikipedia, so I might be entirely mistaking.

Joy wrote:I don't think Nintendo or VIZ will mind, so long as we make clear that this is purely fan-made and for no profit at all.
I realize this, I've just been raised to be a bit cynical and suspicious of pretty much any one.

And it's not like we're completely unprotected by fair use, there are other cases like ours, and they have gone both ways. I just don't want anyone to feel like they were tricked into this, without knowing that there was at least some risk involved.

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Re: Copyright???

Post by dirksies on Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:12 pm

Let's see...Fair Use seems to depend on purpose and character, nature of the copied work, amount and substainability, and effect upon orginal work's value. The purpose and character of our anime is, as I see it, to "progress the arts through the addition of something new", which fits into fair use. The nature of our anime is non-profit, so we shouldn't have any trouble with that. The amount and substainability we might run into some trouble with, but because we are doing basically everything ourselves --animation, voice acting, scorewriting-- we should be okay, though we might want to watch how much of the script is word for word from the manga. Finally the effect of our anime on the original work's value should be overall positive, we are, in a way, promoting Pokemon Special manga and trying to get it to a bigger audience, which I don't think the orginal creators should mind too much.

Yep, overall, we sould be good. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

Yeah, wikipedia ftw! I can ask my dad too. He's a lawyer at State Farm and we works with contracts. If we really get nervous about this, I'll talk to him.

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Re: Copyright???

Post by Mylodon on Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:25 pm

The whole "should be" was my cause for worry to begin with as well as my conclusion. I was a bit more worried, since I also found lots of the rules of fair use to be left for a judges interpretation of it.

Asking your father would definitely put my mind at ease.

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Re: Copyright???

Post by Joyfulldreams on Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:49 pm

Yeah, about the script, I was hoping we could change it up a bit anyway. XD Some of the translations could be different.

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Re: Copyright???

Post by Mylodon on Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:52 pm

Come to think of it, aren't most (if not all) of the MF translations fan made anyway?

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Re: Copyright???

Post by Joyfulldreams on Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:08 pm

Mylodon wrote:Come to think of it, aren't most (if not all) of the MF translations fan made anyway?


No, a lot of them are direct scans of Viz's translation. The Dragon Guard scans are just using raws and putting Viz translations on them. Most of the other one are Chuang Yi, and the rest are from few scanlation groups.

And at any point in time, mangafox could be asked to cease and desist showing the manga on their site.

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Re: Copyright???

Post by Mylodon on Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:31 pm

Huh, I find that rather odd, I could have sworn you translated at some of it.

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Re: Copyright???

Post by Neojunk on Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:37 pm

Interesting... Mangafox has been around for years and so... according to the implications of the existence of that site, I'm guessing those guys across the Pacific aren't going to hunt us down and sue us.

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Re: Copyright???

Post by dirksies on Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:41 pm

Bad news, very bad news. I talked to my dad, everything seems okay intially, but the main problem is using the characters themselves for this anime as they have been copyrighted. Apparently the fines for using someone else's characters are pretty stiff. He said we basically have two options; we can either write a letter to the creators, asking for permission to use their characters in a fan-based anime or make a whole new story ourselves.

I'm not too worried about the Japanese creators giving us trouble, but their American counterparts worry me a bit. I'm not entirely sure who the letter would go to, though...

I'm sorry to bring such bad news Sad

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Re: Copyright???

Post by Joyfulldreams on Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:43 pm

Aw man, that sucks.

Mylodon: Yeah, I did. I'm included in the 'few scanlation groups'. Sorta.

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Re: Copyright???

Post by dirksies on Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:45 pm

Yeah, it sucks hard. I'm so bummed

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Re: Copyright???

Post by Joyfulldreams on Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:50 pm

But we're probably going to do it anyway. Maybe, after we get some of it, done, we ask them if it's okay with them. Putting emphasis on FAN-MADE and ENTIRELY NON-PROFIT. And maybe put somewhere in there that we having many aspiring artists from all over who also see this as an opportunity to increase their skills and help further their careers. XD

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Re: Copyright???

Post by dirksies on Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:52 pm

I hope so. I feel like we should get someone on getting permission now that way we don't get shut down and fined later. I'm willing to write the letter, if it comes to that.

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Re: Copyright???

Post by Joyfulldreams on Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:55 pm

dirksies wrote:I hope so. I feel like we should get someone on getting permission now that way we don't get shut down and fined later. I'm willing to write the letter, if it comes to that.

I don't think we'd get fined. Probably just a cease and desist. =(

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Re: Copyright???

Post by dirksies on Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:58 pm

My dad thinks we would :/ He's says there have been some cases similar to this before, but then again, that was with Mickey Mouse, so I'm sure the fines or whatever wouldn't be as bad, like you said. Like I said before, I doubt it's the Japanese publisher's we need to worry about, but the American distributers.

I'm talking about American Fair Use policy, because that's what I looked over. My dad also said that because some of us are from the United States, its Fair Use would apply for us.

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Re: Copyright???

Post by Joyfulldreams on Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:04 pm

dirksies wrote:My dad thinks we would :/ He's says there have been some cases similar to this before, but then again, that was with Mickey Mouse, so I'm sure the fines or whatever wouldn't be as bad, like you said. Like I said before, I doubt it's the Japanese publisher's we need to worry about, but the American distributers.

I'm talking about American Fair Use policy, because that's what I looked over. My dad also said that because some of us are from the United States, its Fair Use would apply for us.

I think that most of us aren't from the US, though. =\ But whatever. Why don't you look at what the american distributors in question say about the rights that they hold? I'm looking into that right now.

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Re: Copyright???

Post by Mrtweetums on Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:06 pm

Are characters like red and yellow really copyrighted? I thought it was the manga itself.

Well, we MUST add a disclaimer to every video (even advertisements and such), and try to complete the first episode. If worse comes to worst we would have to stop entirely, but we shouldn't have to worry now.

Just keep on working, and ignore the subject for now. We'll deal with it when it comes to that point. No use worrying about stuff that hasn't happened yet, right?

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Re: Copyright???

Post by dirksies on Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:11 pm

Joyfulldreams wrote:
dirksies wrote:My dad thinks we would :/ He's says there have been some cases similar to this before, but then again, that was with Mickey Mouse, so I'm sure the fines or whatever wouldn't be as bad, like you said. Like I said before, I doubt it's the Japanese publisher's we need to worry about, but the American distributers.

I'm talking about American Fair Use policy, because that's what I looked over. My dad also said that because some of us are from the United States, its Fair Use would apply for us.

I think that most of us aren't from the US, though. =\ But whatever. Why don't you look at what the american distributors in question say about the rights that they hold? I'm looking into that right now.

I'll look into it.

I think the fact that we're fans who aren't making this for profit and who aren't portraying the characters in a bad way is going to protect us a lot more then my dad gives credit for, but that's my two cents.

Mrtweetums wrote:Are characters like red and yellow really copyrighted? I thought it was the manga itself.

Well, we MUST add a disclaimer to every video (even advertisements and such), and try to complete the first episode. If worse comes to worst we would have to stop entirely, but we shouldn't have to worry now.

Just keep on working, and ignore the subject for now. We'll deal with it when it comes to that point. No use worrying about stuff that hasn't happened yet, right?

We still should look into it, just to be ready. I really want this project to go through and I don't want something silly like legal issues messing it up.

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Re: Copyright???

Post by Joyfulldreams on Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:17 pm

dirksies wrote:We still should look into it, just to be ready. I really want this project to go through and I don't want something silly like legal issues messing it up.

I think so too. And we also need to be fully aware of what we are exactly doing in order to defend ourselves if the need arises. (Plus, I just want to know.)

Also, another factor that would protect us is that pretty much everybody in this project is a minor. I mean, the oldest one of us is Goddess_of_Random, who's 19. Therefore, none of us really have the ability to be seriously pursued in court (I mean, you're gonna bring a bunch of teens to court and try and fine them for making a fan animation?), nor do any of us provide much of a threat to them market-wise or job-wise or company-wise or competition-wise.

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